Thanks very much for your CARM web site. It has provided needed info this last week as some questions have arisen among our congregation. God bless you.
Matt? You are a knee biter. Stop calling other Christians cultists on your websites. My blogs will be posted all over the internet mentioning you by name. There is no negotiation.
Idaho Slick Here we are again, talking about that knee-biter Matt Slick. Matt Slick is that failed Presbyterian minister that the Presbyterians wouldn't let minister due to his views.
Matt then became an out-of-the-box Carlvinist and denounced other Christian denominations as cults on his website CARM.
In Matt's defense (if one can defend a knee-biter like Matt Slick), other denominations have done the same in the line of bad leadership and declared only themselves the true Christianity. I suppose I shouldn't be so hard on Matt's denunciations of other Christian denominations, but Matt is a Calvinist after all which is probably the darkest version of Christianity and the most false. Also, Matt is flooding the web with cheap, self-referring Calvinist websites and his sites are hogging up some top hits on the web.
Matt's manipulation of search engines just makes his accusations against other denominations all that worse. He is affecting many seekers and believers with Calvinist rubbish. He freely accuses other Christians of being in cults while promoting himself and spreading his name and "credentials" around the internet. Matt is a public figure now and must stand the scrutiny.
My suggestion? Delete all the accusations off of the CARM website today. It would be much better to simply say you disagree with other denominations or Calvinism disagrees with other denominations.
CARM's question posed "tell us where we are wrong" is easy to answer, Matt Slick is a Calvinist and CARM assumes that Christian orthodoxy means "Calvinism only."
Matt Slick's leadership is a prime example of how a Masters of Divinity means nothing. Calvin is a good example of how murderers should not write theology. Do this Google search to learn about Calvinism:http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=john+calvin+murderer
Since most Christians in the world are fighting Calvinism, most Christians are faced with fighting CARM and Matt Slick's Calvinist doctrine touted as normalcy.What is Calvinist doctrine? Things like predestination, a three person trinity (polytheism), faith alone saves, once saved always saved, and other such heresies of the Christian church spread by John Calvin.
There are a lot of divinity degrees pounded out every day that are merely cheap Calvinism and teach the heresies of Calvin. It seems like Matt Slick has yet to discover how under-educated he really is.
How does CARM and Matt Slick damage Christianity? Well first and foremost, Matt Slick has multiple websites that are John Calvin based.
That is - John Calvin the murderer - if you don't know who John Calvin is.
John Calvin was basically unemployed there in the Middle Ages, so he grabbed a pulpit and started ranting in raving in the pulpit. People were very interested in listening to rants and raves back then and they listened. Also, John Calvin was pretty upset when some nice people tried to stop him, so he used some old church laws to have his detractors executed by the state. Nice guy huh? Oh yes, and Calvin danced around the people he had burned at the stake like a raving madman and lunatic.
Of course, this murderer is the mentor of Matt Slick.
So what consists of Matt Slick's theology after Calvin's evil influence? Evil and black thoughts like a three person trinity, predestination, and annoying other Christians by the arrogant intonation that you are saved because you are the elect, accusing all other Christians of being cultists, etc. You know, the usual bunk of Calvinism. What makes Matt Slick really annoying is his Google Bombing of the web.
If you haven't read any of Calvin's doctrine, consider yourself in luck for not wasting you own time. However, knowing evil doctrine is good so that you can identify knee-biters like Matt Slick at a moment's notice.
Consider yourself not lucky if you have stumbled upon Matt Slick's cultish websites of which there are many. Matt Slick is obviously trying to Google Bomb the web with self-referring Calvinist websites.
My advice to Matt? Take all the cult accusations off of your websites. You can't deny that they are there. They are part of the official webpages of your site. I checked just today. Have a nice rest of 2007!
Writing this post today is too easy! How does CARM and Matt Slick damage Christianity? Well first and foremost, Matt Slick has multiple websites that are John Calvin based.
That is - John Calvin the murderer - if you don't know who John Calvin is.
John Calvin was basically unemployed there in the Middle Ages, so he grabbed a pulpit and started ranting in raving in the pulpit. People were very interested in listening to rants and raves back then and they listened. Also, John Calvin was pretty upset when some nice people tried to stop him, so he used some old church laws to have his detractors executed by the state. Nice guy huh? Oh yes, and Calvin danced around the people he had burned at the stake like a raving madman and lunatic.
Of course, this murderer is the mentor of Matt Slick.
So what consists of Matt Slick's theology after Calvin's evil influence? Evil and black thoughts like predestination, faith alone saves or merits heaven, and annoying other Christians by the arrogant intonation that you are saved because you are the elect, accusing all other Christians of being cultists, etc. You know, the usual bunk of Calvinism. What makes Matt Slick really annoying is his Google Bombing of the web. This involves a string of cheap websites that refer to each other to get more hits on the internet.
If you haven't read any of Calvin's doctrine, consider yourself completely in luck for not wasting you own time. However, knowing evil doctrine is good so that you can identify knee-biters like Matt Slick at a moment's notice.
Consider yourself not lucky if you have stumbled upon Matt Slick's cultish websites of which there are many. Matt Slick is obviously trying to Google Bomb the web with self-referring Calvinist websites. All this to make a living at the expense of Christianity and the Christian Church.
My advice to Matt? Take all the cult accusations off of your websites. You can't deny that they are there. They are part of the official webpages of your site. I checked just today. Have a nice rest of 2007!
I got an email from one of Matt Slick's friends and he said that Matt Slick is trying to fight against Arminianism using Calvinism.
I looked up Arminianism, and was not impressed with one branch of "faith alone" belief arguing against another branch of "faith alone" belief. This fake verbal war that CARM says it must win is really just a straw man debate.
Matt Slick still should remove his numerous accusations against other Christians from his CARM website.
This "righteous verbal war" that Matt Slick and his friends say they are fighting is really just a fake. Real Christians are nauseated by Matt Slick and company.
It is not difficult to see through "faith alone" Christianity in any form. Yet some version of Christianity must take up the bottom rung. Faith-alone Christianity accomplishes that. How else is someone in it for the gain supposed to take on Christ's name. Jesus Christ has ways of turning evil into good and faith alone Christianity is a slave to real Christianity that way.
Jesus said the entire "law and the prophets" was love to the Lord and love to the neighbor. I would not want to end up in a church or among company that cannot speak of love and God being love.
Be careful of the CARM website and Matt Slick's various Calvinist websites. Matt Slick is hogging up all sorts of top hits on Google right now and is really guilty of Google Bombing CARM and Calvinism on the web.
Be careful for yourself and your children. False doctrines like Calvinism is not a game. It is heresy and apostasy from the real church who understand love and kindness as well as faith in Jesus Christ.
Matt Slick is not qualified to answer any of your questions at this time do to his being a dark Calvinist and being a false teacher.
Please feel free to email:
carmstuff@gmail.com
with any questions relating to real Christianity and God being good and the Bible being good.
If you would like to know about the roots of Calvinism, you can type "John Calvin Murderer" into any web search engine like google.
John Calvin - murderer - is the teacher of Matt Slick.
Matt Slick insists on "predestination" theory where God is supposed to condemn people to hell before they are born, "vicarious atonement" where God requires a quid pro quo exchange for sin, deity of the Holy Spirit (who knows what is meant by that - we all know that the trinity is all divine or part of God), among other "I say so" doctrines that Matt Slick will simply not give up.
Matt Slick has won several false doctrine and false teaching awards from real Christians, who know that God is good - as it says in the "good book."
Kinda hard to respond to someone who you don't know isn't it? And you won't know me either.
You might actually have to discuss doctrines, and whether they are true or not, and WHY they are true or not, instead of using the usual label words to denounce other Christians and using Calvinist references to John Calvin - the murderer.
Matt Slick (CARM) teaches a license for immorality as faith-alone Christianity cuts a path through the church. It seems like Matt Slick doesn't care about Christianity one bit, and has to make money after being kicked out of the Presbyterian ministry.
Lip confessions of Jesus Christ may advance the church somewhat, but it does nothing for your salvation if you don't follow Christ's rules about Love to the Lord and Love to the neighbor.
Watch out for Matt Slick and his dangerous cult of "faith alone" saves. It doesn't do anything for yourself or your children except delude them into thinking they will automatically be saved. The Holy Bible speaks against such automatic salvation.
Leaving CARM - Christian Apologetics Research Ministry - and leaving Calvinism behind?
I visited the CARM website today, I saw that it was still Calvinism with all of Calvin's darker thoughts, I saw that Matt Slick still accuses every Christian of being a cultist except those that hold Matt Slick's Calvinist points of doctrine, and I again denounce the fake ministry of Matt Slick.
Don't be disheartened that a Calvinist has taught wrongly, that a Calvinist has told you that you are hellbound (or not the "elect" like Calvinists are supposed to be), and that a Calvinist is again trying to cut a path through Christianity for his own purposes.
After all, John Calvin carried "predestination" into the Christian church for the benefit of John Calvin.
It is good to keep on learning the faiths of the Christian church, even if there are bad teachers out there like Matt Slick. Charity, faith and good works is the trinity in man, and it can't be undone by any Calvinist arguing emphatically against it.
It is completely understandable that Christians learning the things of the Christian church would leave CARM, its founder, and his website, shake off the dust, and go to greater things about Christianity and our Lord, the Lord God Jesus Christ.
Here are some real bad doctrines from CARM that are easy to debunk:
Vicarious Atonement - God is one God, so that there is no "vicarious atonement" as CARM and Matt Slick would have you believe. Vicarious Atonement theory comes from the idea that God is three distinct persons so that one "god person" can exact judgement, wrath and vengeance upon another "god person." This "persons" in the trinity is false doctrine that Matt Slick actually shares with other Christian denominations who still have "persons" in their Holy Trinity. Fortunately, real Christians are learning the monotheist Holy Trinity, which is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is like the soul, the body and works of a single person. The Lord God Jesus Christ is like one person in mind and body.
Predestination - the dark belief that God condemns some people to hell before they are even born. This is really a matter of the heart here. Is God evil? No - God is not evil. Does God forgive? Yes - God forgives. Predestination theory was around before John Calvin because some people wanted to attribute an interpreted sense to Paul's letters. Being barbarians of the day, they decided that God was really evil instead of good, and that God must condemn some people for no reason at all. This bogus doctrine doesn't need anything to debunk it, except for the fact that God is Love and God is not at all evil.
Personhood and diety of the Holy Spirit - the three person trinity that is pushed because it has been written into practically every church creed. There is no problem that the Holy Spirit is divine. That is true. It is the inflowing of the divine into man. However, the Holy Spirit is not a person - it is the divine inflowing into man from the Lord God.
CARM, Cult Of Matt Slick. CARM is a dangerous cult with a dangerous cult leader - Matt Slick. Matt Slick is a living cult leader that wants the minds of your children and your family and your friends. The CARM faith-alone "no works" ministry is a license to sin and beat up on Christians who work in kindness and love every day. Matt Slick is a fake minister who is constantly abusing Christians who are trying to carry on every day in Christ's love.
Matt Slick google bombs the internet with all kinds of negativity against other denominations. If you aren't TULIP Calvinist, you aren't a Christian according to Matt Slick.
Watch out for this dangerous mind-control attempt by Matt Slick.
I find your radio show very interesting, though I disagree with your positions quite strongly. On one of my blogs, I've written a response to one of your specific shows. I'd welcome your responses to my posting. I know you by now, I think, and I know you almost always have an answer for everything. So do I, so bring it on!
(By the way, I'm currently listening to you talking to Jerry, and I'll just remark that you've probably never heard of a Farriday cage. Inside a metal box is the best place to be in case of a lightning strike.)
Hullo carmstuff.
Calvinism is a rather nasty doctrine, isn't it? Personally, I attack it from an ex-JW atheist position. You see things clearer from that perspective.
And Calvin himself was certainly a nasty person. A horrible twisted little man. A murderer and a sadist. Are ad hominum attacks like this meaningful? Yes, they probably are in the case of religious teachers. If he was lead by God, he was lead by no God I want to know.
Carmstuff, If i didn't know any better i would say your afraid of Mr. Matt Slick. First, saved by grace, the trinity, and salvation is not only taught by calvanism. Baptist which are not considered protestants use this form of doctrine also. Oh! and it is BIBLICAL!!! No one debates that even though Calvin was a Christian he was probably a legalistic person. But as humans we all make mistakes and as long as he believed in Jesus as his ONLY LORD and SAVIOR then he was saved. If the Matt Slick is causing waves, you should examine your own beliefs because maybe you are in the wrong. Is he right in everything, no! He's a human being. Only Jesus was perfect. But i'll tell you what, his doctrine so far has been completly Biblical and that is enough. If you don't like it. Examine your faith, because you are not a Christian. Christianity should not be based on denominations, denominations DO NOT SAVE!!! Only Jesus saves!!!! He is the answer!!!
The boy with the tambourine, I read your blog and i see you are very intelligent. Your views are far more rational than carmstuff you just spits hatred. But i must admit that i am against homosexual marraiges. The reason is because it's wrong and the Bile clearly states that. Now your arguements that we can have a slave, and polygomy, are very good. But if you read the New Testament a little more you'll se when God commands you to be loyal to (1) wife, and to have mercy on your brother. The fight against slavery was fought mostly by Christians because we believe everyone is created in the image of God. Again i dont want to get into a debat, i just want to state one thing. You can argue all you want, but when your time comes and you die, if the God of the bible is real(which i believe he is)your going to be punished for your sins unless you recieve Jesus Christ into your heart and repent. It's that simple. If your willing to take that risk then good luck to you, and may God convict you of your sin. God Bless!
Thanks for the compliment. You've now set me a standard to keep to. Oh dear.
(I've changed my blogger name slightly since I last posted, but it seems that blogger does not update that on older postings, so you'll see two different names for me in this one conversation. You'll know they're the same person, though, as both are links to the same blogger ID.)
Gay marriage is against the Bile, is it? Yes, plenty of bile in that book. The Old Testament is a barbaric bronze age text, describing a God who is arguably the most unpleasant character in fiction. Add the New Testament to the analysis, and you have to say he's seriously schizophrenic too (or is it MPD?).
(Sorry, a bad joke based on your minor typo. Don't mind me.)
On a more serious note, why do you think your arguments have any weight in a secular democracy? Your post basically boils down to, "You can't have your human rights because my imaginary friend doesn't like it." So what? People who invoke sky fairies in serious debate are to be pitied, not listened to. I cannot take you seriously.
At twenty-three, I'm still in the closet, still hiding who I am, because the people I'm close to believe a fairy story. I can't be honest with them because they think a Middle Eastern myth is important. That hurts.
At least I am now honest with myself. I can write here the words I'm gay without flinching. And one of these days, when I get an independent job (I'm working with my dad at the moment), move out of home, and stop pretending to be even vaguely interested in the teachings of the Witnesses, I'll find myself a boyfriend. One day.
So yes, I am willing to "take that risk", in spite of the vivid descriptions of Hell that your religion produces. (The Witnesses don't, of course.) The fact that I am happy to do this should tell you how good I think your side's arguments are. They are, in fact, shockingly bad. Indeed, some of you suggest that belief without evidence is a virtue! This twisted thinking is responsible for many of the world's ills.
And the fact that your descriptions of Hell are so much more vivid than your descriptions of Heaven is proof in itself that religion is man-made. Indeed, the only interesting description of Heaven is that of Tertullian, who said it would be equipped with windows to Hell so the saints could enjoy the sufferings of the damned. If any sort of person deserves to go to Hell, it's the mind that can come up with that description of heaven.
Hi boy with a tambourine, Sorry for the spelling error(s). First, i believe when you say that God is a fairy tale you are speaking out of belief or faith as we "Christians" might call it. 1) there is absolutly no evidence proving he doesn't exist. 2)You are using my description of hell to prove that it is "man-made". how so? And no God is not schizophrenic, in the O.T he provided wrath and judgment which is why he sent Jesus to die on the cross. Once he died we came under the covenant of grace. Our judgment will come when we die, and partly on earth, but Jesus paid our price and took God's wrath so we would not have to anymore. You also say we are responsible for many world ills? If you read history, the bad ones are the catholics, not the same as Christians. And most charities, oversees and domestic, or 99% of humane organizations were started by Christians or someone who believed in the God of the Bible. You might say there is no proof fro God's existence, i encourage you to google evidences for Christ's life, resurection, and the validity of the Bible. There is 100X more evidence for this, than for "evolution" or any other "religion" or belief on earth. Also, you state human rights. Who gave humans these "human rights"? Ourselves? And if we did then who should govern them and why should we let them? This opens the door to relative truth, which leads to anarchy! Also The history of the Bible is unlike any other book, it has survived persecution time and time again. It has changed more lives than any other book in history, and many more also. Evidence speaks for itself, i encourage you to check, oh and the hell you mentioned is not a description of the hell of the Bible.Tertullian is wrong. Thank you for your comments. And even though you are gay, I love you and Jesus does also.
You could play Spot-the-References with my post, couldn't you?
What have I been reading?
"... a God who is arguably the most unpleasant character in fiction."
R. Dawkins, The God Delusion.
"The fact that I am happy to ['take that risk'] should tell you how good I think your side's arguments are."
S. Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation.
"The fact that your descriptions of Hell are so much more vivid than your descriptions of Heaven is proof in itself that religion is man-made."
C. Hitchens, God Is Not Great.
(They're not direct quotes, but these are where the thoughts come from. On the other hand, the idea that if anyone deserves to go to Hell, it's someone with the mindset of Tertullian, is, I think, original.)
Good books, all.
***
I'm rushing out to a job interview now, so I can't reply properly to your post. Perhaps we'd be better off to take this argument up on my blog rather than Matt's, anyway.
The hallmark of a cult is that the members of the cult follow and worship the cult leader. In 1 Corinthians 3:4-7, Paul openly rebukes people who follow a person, including those who claim to follow him, yet you've made the comment; "Carm is about ME", and allow groups on your discussion forums to call themselves "Slick-aholics". That makes Carm a cult because as you admit, Carm is all about you.
I'm a new listener and really enjoying your show. I've been listening to your podcasts but I noticed that we cannot open some of your older podcasts. When I try I get the following message, "can't find on this server". Below is a link to one of the podcasts I tried to listen to. Thanks for all you're doing! God bless.
Some of the older podcasts are deleted. I don't know why. You wouldn't imagine there'd be many people downloading the older ones, so it's hardly to save bandwidth, and actual filespace is fairly cheap these days.
I see Slick and Sellner have found a new broomstick to ride - the anti Obama broomstick. What excuses will they put forward if he wins - Sellner having stated categorically that he would lose?
Matt, I would like to ask you a question. I am a Catholic and I visit your CARM site once in a while... I notice that you seem like an extremely intelligent and nice guy to be with and talk to. Why do you allow such incindiary comments on The CARM Discussion Boards? It shows that when people see it, they see you. Ok? You represent "it"...Can't you realize how brutally senseless it is to allow such vitriol against people on it that "some" spew as "disagreements"? There is very few subject matter that is critical to serious theological thought. Heck, I don't care what you do. You won't ever change my mind. But if you want to associate yourself "religiously" with a site that is similar to that of a secular "Daily Kos" proto-type, your just not gonna move people into the Christian Ideal of faith the way in which you intend to move them. Again, your not going to change my theological mind, but if you do succeed to change that of others, do you really want them to have the kind of spirit that lives and breathes through the actions of "some" on the CARM Board? They may get that conversion you want all Christians to enjoy, but do you really want them to share their "new" Christianity through the brand of folks like holly "Jolly" and, as you well know, made up to look the part like "George Yurich" in the venue that is spewed there or do you want the kind of Christians who have the fruits of The "True" and Holy Spirit of Galatians 5:19-23 as "YES" the kind of spirit that I met you in personally, once? (You may not remember and it doesn't even matter. I know you to be a very good Christian man)
So, I am just allowing you to take a closer look at yourself, your message, the public way you present yourself with the "DJ" gal sidekick or do you want to leave a facade of distrust, unambiguity and no continuity of integrity... as your legacy?
I may not agree with you, but I will not be "disagreeable" with you. Do you really and truly want the likes of a "Jolly" or a "George Yurich" to be your brand and emblem of integrity? I sure hope not, my friend.. Think it over...
I REALLY DON'T THINK IT IS ANYONES JOB 2 JUDGE EACHOTHER AND I FEEL THAT AS A FOLLOWER AND A STRONG RELIGIOUS LEADER IT IS MY JOB TO HELP HUMANITY ON THEIR PATH NOT DESTROY IT. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT PATHS AND I ALSO KNOW THAT ONE PATH RIGHT FOR ONE MAY NOT BE FOR ANOTHER. WE MUST EXCEPT EACHOTHER LOVE ONE ANOTHER REGARDLESS OF RELIGION OR RACE WE WERE ALL CREATED FOR A PUPOSE TO BUILD UP EACH OTHER NOT TEAR ONE ANOTHER DOWN. REMEMBER RELIGION COMES FROM MAN NOT GOD THE BIBLE IS A GUIDE. IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN BY MAN AS MAN IS FLAWED SO IS RELIGION AND THERE FOR SO IS THE BIBLE. GOD SEES WHATS IN YOUR HEART WE ARE ALL STRIVING FOR THE SAME THING WHETHER YOU CALL ON GOD, ALLAH, JOHOVA, LORD, LADY, OR MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE OR ALMIGHTY CREATER WE ARE ALL STILL PRAYING FOR THE SAME THINGS TO THE SAME GODS AND UNTIL WE REALIZE THIS THE WORLD WILL ALWAYS BE CHAOS. WE HAVE ABOLISHED SLAVERY AND GAVE WOMEN RIGHTS WHY ARE WE STILL FIGHTING OVER RELIGION YOU CAN HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HIGHER POWER OF WHATEVER YOU PREFER TO CALL IT WITHOUT RELIGION. A TRUE FOLLOWER DOESN'T ASK FOR MONEY THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THEY GIVE LOVE AND NOT EXPECTATIONS. THEY HELP WITH NOTHING IN RETURN. THEY LOVE WITH THERE WHOLE HEART AND LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST. YOU MAY SAY WHAT YOU WANT BUT I BELIEVE I AM A VESSLE GOD SPEAKS THROUGH.
I REALLY DON'T THINK IT IS ANYONES JOB 2 JUDGE EACHOTHER AND I FEEL THAT AS A FOLLOWER AND A STRONG RELIGIOUS LEADER IT IS MY JOB TO HELP HUMANITY ON THEIR PATH NOT DESTROY IT. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT PATHS AND I ALSO KNOW THAT ONE PATH RIGHT FOR ONE MAY NOT BE FOR ANOTHER. WE MUST EXCEPT EACHOTHER LOVE ONE ANOTHER REGARDLESS OF RELIGION OR RACE WE WERE ALL CREATED FOR A PUPOSE TO BUILD UP EACH OTHER NOT TEAR ONE ANOTHER DOWN. REMEMBER RELIGION COMES FROM MAN NOT GOD THE BIBLE IS A GUIDE. IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN BY MAN AS MAN IS FLAWED SO IS RELIGION AND THERE FOR SO IS THE BIBLE. GOD SEES WHATS IN YOUR HEART WE ARE ALL STRIVING FOR THE SAME THING WHETHER YOU CALL ON GOD, ALLAH, JOHOVA, LORD, LADY, OR MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE OR ALMIGHTY CREATER WE ARE ALL STILL PRAYING FOR THE SAME THINGS TO THE SAME GODS AND UNTIL WE REALIZE THIS THE WORLD WILL ALWAYS BE CHAOS. WE HAVE ABOLISHED SLAVERY AND GAVE WOMEN RIGHTS WHY ARE WE STILL FIGHTING OVER RELIGION YOU CAN HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HIGHER POWER OF WHATEVER YOU PREFER TO CALL IT WITHOUT RELIGION. A TRUE FOLLOWER DOESN'T ASK FOR MONEY THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THEY GIVE LOVE AND NOT EXPECTATIONS. THEY HELP WITH NOTHING IN RETURN. THEY LOVE WITH THERE WHOLE HEART AND LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST. YOU MAY SAY WHAT YOU WANT BUT I BELIEVE I AM A VESSLE GOD SPEAKS THROUGH.
38 comments:
Hi matt!
Welcome to das blogosfeer! May your stay be long and your opponents be lain at your feet in heaps.
Hi Matt,
God Bless ya! Can't wait to see what happens here...
I hope so!
Thanks very much for your CARM web site. It has provided needed info this last week as some questions have arisen among our congregation. God bless you.
Matt? You are a knee biter. Stop calling other Christians cultists on your websites. My blogs will be posted all over the internet mentioning you by name. There is no negotiation.
Idaho Slick
Here we are again, talking about that knee-biter Matt Slick. Matt Slick is that failed Presbyterian minister that the Presbyterians wouldn't let minister due to his views.
Matt then became an out-of-the-box Carlvinist and denounced other Christian denominations as cults on his website CARM.
In Matt's defense (if one can defend a knee-biter like Matt Slick), other denominations have done the same in the line of bad leadership and declared only themselves the true Christianity. I suppose I shouldn't be so hard on Matt's denunciations of other Christian denominations, but Matt is a Calvinist after all which is probably the darkest version of Christianity and the most false. Also, Matt is flooding the web with cheap, self-referring Calvinist websites and his sites are hogging up some top hits on the web.
Matt's manipulation of search engines just makes his accusations against other denominations all that worse. He is affecting many seekers and believers with Calvinist rubbish. He freely accuses other Christians of being in cults while promoting himself and spreading his name and "credentials" around the internet. Matt is a public figure now and must stand the scrutiny.
My suggestion? Delete all the accusations off of the CARM website today. It would be much better to simply say you disagree with other denominations or Calvinism disagrees with other denominations.
CARM's question posed "tell us where we are wrong" is easy to answer, Matt Slick is a Calvinist and CARM assumes that Christian orthodoxy means "Calvinism only."
Matt Slick's leadership is a prime example of how a Masters of Divinity means nothing. Calvin is a good example of how murderers should not write theology. Do this Google search to learn about Calvinism:http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=john+calvin+murderer
Since most Christians in the world are fighting Calvinism, most Christians are faced with fighting CARM and Matt Slick's Calvinist doctrine touted as normalcy.What is Calvinist doctrine? Things like predestination, a three person trinity (polytheism), faith alone saves, once saved always saved, and other such heresies of the Christian church spread by John Calvin.
There are a lot of divinity degrees pounded out every day that are merely cheap Calvinism and teach the heresies of Calvin. It seems like Matt Slick has yet to discover how under-educated he really is.
How does CARM and Matt Slick damage Christianity? Well first and foremost, Matt Slick has multiple websites that are John Calvin based.
That is - John Calvin the murderer - if you don't know who John Calvin is.
John Calvin was basically unemployed there in the Middle Ages, so he grabbed a pulpit and started ranting in raving in the pulpit. People were very interested in listening to rants and raves back then and they listened. Also, John Calvin was pretty upset when some nice people tried to stop him, so he used some old church laws to have his detractors executed by the state. Nice guy huh? Oh yes, and Calvin danced around the people he had burned at the stake like a raving madman and lunatic.
Of course, this murderer is the mentor of Matt Slick.
So what consists of Matt Slick's theology after Calvin's evil influence? Evil and black thoughts like a three person trinity, predestination, and annoying other Christians by the arrogant intonation that you are saved because you are the elect, accusing all other Christians of being cultists, etc. You know, the usual bunk of Calvinism. What makes Matt Slick really annoying is his Google Bombing of the web.
If you haven't read any of Calvin's doctrine, consider yourself in luck for not wasting you own time. However, knowing evil doctrine is good so that you can identify knee-biters like Matt Slick at a moment's notice.
Consider yourself not lucky if you have stumbled upon Matt Slick's cultish websites of which there are many. Matt Slick is obviously trying to Google Bomb the web with self-referring Calvinist websites.
My advice to Matt? Take all the cult accusations off of your websites. You can't deny that they are there. They are part of the official webpages of your site. I checked just today. Have a nice rest of 2007!
Writing this post today is too easy! How does CARM and Matt Slick damage Christianity? Well first and foremost, Matt Slick has multiple websites that are John Calvin based.
That is - John Calvin the murderer - if you don't know who John Calvin is.
John Calvin was basically unemployed there in the Middle Ages, so he grabbed a pulpit and started ranting in raving in the pulpit. People were very interested in listening to rants and raves back then and they listened. Also, John Calvin was pretty upset when some nice people tried to stop him, so he used some old church laws to have his detractors executed by the state. Nice guy huh? Oh yes, and Calvin danced around the people he had burned at the stake like a raving madman and lunatic.
Of course, this murderer is the mentor of Matt Slick.
So what consists of Matt Slick's theology after Calvin's evil influence? Evil and black thoughts like predestination, faith alone saves or merits heaven, and annoying other Christians by the arrogant intonation that you are saved because you are the elect, accusing all other Christians of being cultists, etc. You know, the usual bunk of Calvinism. What makes Matt Slick really annoying is his Google Bombing of the web. This involves a string of cheap websites that refer to each other to get more hits on the internet.
If you haven't read any of Calvin's doctrine, consider yourself completely in luck for not wasting you own time. However, knowing evil doctrine is good so that you can identify knee-biters like Matt Slick at a moment's notice.
Consider yourself not lucky if you have stumbled upon Matt Slick's cultish websites of which there are many. Matt Slick is obviously trying to Google Bomb the web with self-referring Calvinist websites. All this to make a living at the expense of Christianity and the Christian Church.
My advice to Matt? Take all the cult accusations off of your websites. You can't deny that they are there. They are part of the official webpages of your site. I checked just today. Have a nice rest of 2007!
I love the doctrines of grace!
Let's get a post up here, Matt!
I got an email from one of Matt Slick's friends and he said that Matt Slick is trying to fight against Arminianism using Calvinism.
I looked up Arminianism, and was not impressed with one branch of "faith alone" belief arguing against another branch of "faith alone" belief. This fake verbal war that CARM says it must win is really just a straw man debate.
Matt Slick still should remove his numerous accusations against other Christians from his CARM website.
This "righteous verbal war" that Matt Slick and his friends say they are fighting is really just a fake. Real Christians are nauseated by Matt Slick and company.
It is not difficult to see through "faith alone" Christianity in any form. Yet some version of Christianity must take up the bottom rung. Faith-alone Christianity accomplishes that. How else is someone in it for the gain supposed to take on Christ's name. Jesus Christ has ways of turning evil into good and faith alone Christianity is a slave to real Christianity that way.
Jesus said the entire "law and the prophets" was love to the Lord and love to the neighbor. I would not want to end up in a church or among company that cannot speak of love and God being love.
Be careful of the CARM website and Matt Slick's various Calvinist websites. Matt Slick is hogging up all sorts of top hits on Google right now and is really guilty of Google Bombing CARM and Calvinism on the web.
Be careful for yourself and your children. False doctrines like Calvinism is not a game. It is heresy and apostasy from the real church who understand love and kindness as well as faith in Jesus Christ.
Matt Slick is not qualified to answer any of your questions at this time do to his being a dark Calvinist and being a false teacher.
Please feel free to email:
carmstuff@gmail.com
with any questions relating to real Christianity and God being good and the Bible being good.
If you would like to know about the roots of Calvinism, you can type "John Calvin Murderer" into any web search engine like google.
John Calvin - murderer - is the teacher of Matt Slick.
Matt Slick insists on "predestination" theory where God is supposed to condemn people to hell before they are born, "vicarious atonement" where God requires a quid pro quo exchange for sin, deity of the Holy Spirit (who knows what is meant by that - we all know that the trinity is all divine or part of God), among other "I say so" doctrines that Matt Slick will simply not give up.
Matt Slick has won several false doctrine and false teaching awards from real Christians, who know that God is good - as it says in the "good book."
Kinda hard to respond to someone who you don't know isn't it? And you won't know me either.
You might actually have to discuss doctrines, and whether they are true or not, and WHY they are true or not, instead of using the usual label words to denounce other Christians and using Calvinist references to John Calvin - the murderer.
Matt Slick (CARM) teaches a license for immorality as faith-alone Christianity cuts a path through the church. It seems like Matt Slick doesn't care about Christianity one bit, and has to make money after being kicked out of the Presbyterian ministry.
Lip confessions of Jesus Christ may advance the church somewhat, but it does nothing for your salvation if you don't follow Christ's rules about Love to the Lord and Love to the neighbor.
Watch out for Matt Slick and his dangerous cult of "faith alone" saves. It doesn't do anything for yourself or your children except delude them into thinking they will automatically be saved. The Holy Bible speaks against such automatic salvation.
Leaving CARM - Christian Apologetics Research Ministry - and leaving Calvinism behind?
I visited the CARM website today, I saw that it was still Calvinism with all of Calvin's darker thoughts, I saw that Matt Slick still accuses every Christian of being a cultist except those that hold Matt Slick's Calvinist points of doctrine, and I again denounce the fake ministry of Matt Slick.
Don't be disheartened that a Calvinist has taught wrongly, that a Calvinist has told you that you are hellbound (or not the "elect" like Calvinists are supposed to be), and that a Calvinist is again trying to cut a path through Christianity for his own purposes.
After all, John Calvin carried "predestination" into the Christian church for the benefit of John Calvin.
It is good to keep on learning the faiths of the Christian church, even if there are bad teachers out there like Matt Slick. Charity, faith and good works is the trinity in man, and it can't be undone by any Calvinist arguing emphatically against it.
It is completely understandable that Christians learning the things of the Christian church would leave CARM, its founder, and his website, shake off the dust, and go to greater things about Christianity and our Lord, the Lord God Jesus Christ.
Here are some real bad doctrines from CARM that are easy to debunk:
Vicarious Atonement - God is one God, so that there is no "vicarious atonement" as CARM and Matt Slick would have you believe. Vicarious Atonement theory comes from the idea that God is three distinct persons so that one "god person" can exact judgement, wrath and vengeance upon another "god person." This "persons" in the trinity is false doctrine that Matt Slick actually shares with other Christian denominations who still have "persons" in their Holy Trinity. Fortunately, real Christians are learning the monotheist Holy Trinity, which is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is like the soul, the body and works of a single person. The Lord God Jesus Christ is like one person in mind and body.
Predestination - the dark belief that God condemns some people to hell before they are even born. This is really a matter of the heart here. Is God evil? No - God is not evil. Does God forgive? Yes - God forgives. Predestination theory was around before John Calvin because some people wanted to attribute an interpreted sense to Paul's letters. Being barbarians of the day, they decided that God was really evil instead of good, and that God must condemn some people for no reason at all. This bogus doctrine doesn't need anything to debunk it, except for the fact that God is Love and God is not at all evil.
Personhood and diety of the Holy Spirit - the three person trinity that is pushed because it has been written into practically every church creed. There is no problem that the Holy Spirit is divine. That is true. It is the inflowing of the divine into man. However, the Holy Spirit is not a person - it is the divine inflowing into man from the Lord God.
CARM, Cult Of Matt Slick. CARM is a dangerous cult with a dangerous cult leader - Matt Slick. Matt Slick is a living cult leader that wants the minds of your children and your family and your friends. The CARM faith-alone "no works" ministry is a license to sin and beat up on Christians who work in kindness and love every day. Matt Slick is a fake minister who is constantly abusing Christians who are trying to carry on every day in Christ's love.
Matt Slick google bombs the internet with all kinds of negativity against other denominations. If you aren't TULIP Calvinist, you aren't a Christian according to Matt Slick.
Watch out for this dangerous mind-control attempt by Matt Slick.
Yay we got some J-Dubs visiting the board!!
Hullo Matt Slick.
I find your radio show very interesting, though I disagree with your positions quite strongly. On one of my blogs, I've written a response to one of your specific shows. I'd welcome your responses to my posting. I know you by now, I think, and I know you almost always have an answer for everything. So do I, so bring it on!
(By the way, I'm currently listening to you talking to Jerry, and I'll just remark that you've probably never heard of a Farriday cage. Inside a metal box is the best place to be in case of a lightning strike.)
Hullo carmstuff.
Calvinism is a rather nasty doctrine, isn't it? Personally, I attack it from an ex-JW atheist position. You see things clearer from that perspective.
And Calvin himself was certainly a nasty person. A horrible twisted little man. A murderer and a sadist. Are ad hominum attacks like this meaningful? Yes, they probably are in the case of religious teachers. If he was lead by God, he was lead by no God I want to know.
Tambourine.
Hello Matt,
I appreciate your radio show and I was wondering if you have done any work on Erwin McMannus?
I would love to email if that is possible. You can also comment on my blog.
My email is ronkinzel@gmail.com
Thanks.
It appears that CARMSTUFF
has some issues.
chill buddy. If you believe in the Holy Spirit, then we can trust that he will lead us into all truth, no matter what CARM says.
I think we got your point!:)
Carmstuff,
If i didn't know any better i would say your afraid of Mr. Matt Slick. First, saved by grace, the trinity, and salvation is not only taught by calvanism. Baptist which are not considered protestants use this form of doctrine also. Oh! and it is BIBLICAL!!! No one debates that even though Calvin was a Christian he was probably a legalistic person. But as humans we all make mistakes and as long as he believed in Jesus as his ONLY LORD and SAVIOR then he was saved. If the Matt Slick is causing waves, you should examine your own beliefs because maybe you are in the wrong. Is he right in everything, no! He's a human being. Only Jesus was perfect. But i'll tell you what, his doctrine so far has been completly Biblical and that is enough. If you don't like it. Examine your faith, because you are not a Christian. Christianity should not be based on denominations, denominations DO NOT SAVE!!! Only Jesus saves!!!! He is the answer!!!
The boy with the tambourine,
I read your blog and i see you are very intelligent. Your views are far more rational than carmstuff you just spits hatred. But i must admit that i am against homosexual marraiges. The reason is because it's wrong and the Bile clearly states that. Now your arguements that we can have a slave, and polygomy, are very good. But if you read the New Testament a little more you'll se when God commands you to be loyal to (1) wife, and to have mercy on your brother. The fight against slavery was fought mostly by Christians because we believe everyone is created in the image of God. Again i dont want to get into a debat, i just want to state one thing. You can argue all you want, but when your time comes and you die, if the God of the bible is real(which i believe he is)your going to be punished for your sins unless you recieve Jesus Christ into your heart and repent. It's that simple. If your willing to take that risk then good luck to you, and may God convict you of your sin. God Bless!
Hi Mike.
Thanks for the compliment. You've now set me a standard to keep to. Oh dear.
(I've changed my blogger name slightly since I last posted, but it seems that blogger does not update that on older postings, so you'll see two different names for me in this one conversation. You'll know they're the same person, though, as both are links to the same blogger ID.)
Gay marriage is against the Bile, is it? Yes, plenty of bile in that book. The Old Testament is a barbaric bronze age text, describing a God who is arguably the most unpleasant character in fiction. Add the New Testament to the analysis, and you have to say he's seriously schizophrenic too (or is it MPD?).
(Sorry, a bad joke based on your minor typo. Don't mind me.)
On a more serious note, why do you think your arguments have any weight in a secular democracy? Your post basically boils down to, "You can't have your human rights because my imaginary friend doesn't like it." So what? People who invoke sky fairies in serious debate are to be pitied, not listened to. I cannot take you seriously.
At twenty-three, I'm still in the closet, still hiding who I am, because the people I'm close to believe a fairy story. I can't be honest with them because they think a Middle Eastern myth is important. That hurts.
At least I am now honest with myself. I can write here the words I'm gay without flinching. And one of these days, when I get an independent job (I'm working with my dad at the moment), move out of home, and stop pretending to be even vaguely interested in the teachings of the Witnesses, I'll find myself a boyfriend. One day.
So yes, I am willing to "take that risk", in spite of the vivid descriptions of Hell that your religion produces. (The Witnesses don't, of course.) The fact that I am happy to do this should tell you how good I think your side's arguments are. They are, in fact, shockingly bad. Indeed, some of you suggest that belief without evidence is a virtue! This twisted thinking is responsible for many of the world's ills.
And the fact that your descriptions of Hell are so much more vivid than your descriptions of Heaven is proof in itself that religion is man-made. Indeed, the only interesting description of Heaven is that of Tertullian, who said it would be equipped with windows to Hell so the saints could enjoy the sufferings of the damned. If any sort of person deserves to go to Hell, it's the mind that can come up with that description of heaven.
Tambourine.
Hi boy with a tambourine,
Sorry for the spelling error(s). First, i believe when you say that God is a fairy tale you are speaking out of belief or faith as we "Christians" might call it. 1) there is absolutly no evidence proving he doesn't exist. 2)You are using my description of hell to prove that it is "man-made". how so? And no God is not schizophrenic, in the O.T he provided wrath and judgment which is why he sent Jesus to die on the cross. Once he died we came under the covenant of grace. Our judgment will come when we die, and partly on earth, but Jesus paid our price and took God's wrath so we would not have to anymore. You also say we are responsible for many world ills? If you read history, the bad ones are the catholics, not the same as Christians. And most charities, oversees and domestic, or 99% of humane organizations were started by Christians or someone who believed in the God of the Bible. You might say there is no proof fro God's existence, i encourage you to google evidences for Christ's life, resurection, and the validity of the Bible. There is 100X more evidence for this, than for "evolution" or any other "religion" or belief on earth. Also, you state human rights. Who gave humans these "human rights"? Ourselves? And if we did then who should govern them and why should we let them? This opens the door to relative truth, which leads to anarchy! Also The history of the Bible is unlike any other book, it has survived persecution time and time again. It has changed more lives than any other book in history, and many more also. Evidence speaks for itself, i encourage you to check, oh and the hell you mentioned is not a description of the hell of the Bible.Tertullian is wrong. Thank you for your comments. And even though you are gay, I love you and Jesus does also.
You could play Spot-the-References with my post, couldn't you?
What have I been reading?
"... a God who is arguably the most unpleasant character in fiction."
R. Dawkins, The God Delusion.
"The fact that I am happy to ['take that risk'] should tell you how good I think your side's arguments are."
S. Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation.
"The fact that your descriptions of Hell are so much more vivid than your descriptions of Heaven is proof in itself that religion is man-made."
C. Hitchens, God Is Not Great.
(They're not direct quotes, but these are where the thoughts come from. On the other hand, the idea that if anyone deserves to go to Hell, it's someone with the mindset of Tertullian, is, I think, original.)
Good books, all.
***
I'm rushing out to a job interview now, so I can't reply properly to your post. Perhaps we'd be better off to take this argument up on my blog rather than Matt's, anyway.
Tambourine.
Is this going to be updated any time soon? Because the empty blog was very disappointing...
The hallmark of a cult is that the members of the cult follow and worship the cult leader. In 1 Corinthians 3:4-7, Paul openly rebukes people who follow a person, including those who claim to follow him, yet you've made the comment; "Carm is about ME", and allow groups on your discussion forums to call themselves "Slick-aholics". That makes Carm a cult because as you admit, Carm is all about you.
"The reason is because it's wrong."
I've only just noticed this. It's rather good, no?
Hi Matt,
I'm a new listener and really enjoying your show. I've been listening to your podcasts but I noticed that we cannot open some of your older podcasts. When I try I get the following message, "can't find on this server". Below is a link to one of the podcasts I tried to listen to. Thanks for all you're doing!
God bless.
http://www.carm.org/audio/pod/fnr_06_01_07.mp3
Good to see that some have sussed what the sick&sell website is all about
Hi YNot.
Some of the older podcasts are deleted. I don't know why. You wouldn't imagine there'd be many people downloading the older ones, so it's hardly to save bandwidth, and actual filespace is fairly cheap these days.
I see Slick and Sellner have found a new broomstick to ride - the anti Obama broomstick. What excuses will they put forward if he wins - Sellner having stated categorically that he would lose?
Matt, I would like to ask you a question. I am a Catholic and I visit your CARM site once in a while... I notice that you seem like an extremely intelligent and nice guy to be with and talk to. Why do you allow such incindiary comments on The CARM Discussion Boards? It shows that when people see it, they see you. Ok? You represent "it"...Can't you realize how brutally senseless it is to allow such vitriol against people on it that "some" spew as "disagreements"? There is very few subject matter that is critical to serious theological thought. Heck, I don't care what you do. You won't ever change my mind. But if you want to associate yourself "religiously" with a site that is similar to that of a secular "Daily Kos" proto-type, your just not gonna move people into the Christian Ideal of faith the way in which you intend to move them. Again, your not going to change my theological mind, but if you do succeed to change that of others, do you really want them to have the kind of spirit that lives and breathes through the actions of "some" on the CARM Board? They may get that conversion you want all Christians to enjoy, but do you really want them to share their "new" Christianity through the brand of folks like holly "Jolly" and, as you well know, made up to look the part like "George Yurich" in the venue that is spewed there or do you want the kind of Christians who have the fruits of The "True" and Holy Spirit of Galatians 5:19-23 as "YES" the kind of spirit that I met you in personally, once? (You may not remember and it doesn't even matter. I know you to be a very good Christian man)
So, I am just allowing you to take a closer look at yourself, your message, the public way you present yourself with the "DJ" gal sidekick or do you want to leave a facade of distrust, unambiguity and no continuity of integrity... as your legacy?
I may not agree with you, but I will not be "disagreeable" with you. Do you really and truly want the likes of a "Jolly" or a "George Yurich" to be your brand and emblem of integrity? I sure hope not, my friend.. Think it over...
I will see you on the Boards... ;)
In Christ,
RJ
Ohhh Matt... I'm still here waiting for you to stop the accusations and the evil cult list you run.
I REALLY DON'T THINK IT IS ANYONES JOB 2 JUDGE EACHOTHER AND I FEEL THAT AS A FOLLOWER AND A STRONG RELIGIOUS LEADER IT IS MY JOB TO HELP HUMANITY ON THEIR PATH NOT DESTROY IT. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT PATHS AND I ALSO KNOW THAT ONE PATH RIGHT FOR ONE MAY NOT BE FOR ANOTHER. WE MUST EXCEPT EACHOTHER LOVE ONE ANOTHER REGARDLESS OF RELIGION OR RACE WE WERE ALL CREATED FOR A PUPOSE TO BUILD UP EACH OTHER NOT TEAR ONE ANOTHER DOWN. REMEMBER RELIGION COMES FROM MAN NOT GOD THE BIBLE IS A GUIDE. IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN BY MAN AS MAN IS FLAWED SO IS RELIGION AND THERE FOR SO IS THE BIBLE. GOD SEES WHATS IN YOUR HEART WE ARE ALL STRIVING FOR THE SAME THING WHETHER YOU CALL ON GOD, ALLAH, JOHOVA, LORD, LADY, OR MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE OR ALMIGHTY CREATER WE ARE ALL STILL PRAYING FOR THE SAME THINGS TO THE SAME GODS AND UNTIL WE REALIZE THIS THE WORLD WILL ALWAYS BE CHAOS. WE HAVE ABOLISHED SLAVERY AND GAVE WOMEN RIGHTS WHY ARE WE STILL FIGHTING OVER RELIGION YOU CAN HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HIGHER POWER OF WHATEVER YOU PREFER TO CALL IT WITHOUT RELIGION. A TRUE FOLLOWER DOESN'T ASK FOR MONEY THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THEY GIVE LOVE AND NOT EXPECTATIONS. THEY HELP WITH NOTHING IN RETURN. THEY LOVE WITH THERE WHOLE HEART AND LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST. YOU MAY SAY WHAT YOU WANT BUT I BELIEVE I AM A VESSLE GOD SPEAKS THROUGH.
I REALLY DON'T THINK IT IS ANYONES JOB 2 JUDGE EACHOTHER AND I FEEL THAT AS A FOLLOWER AND A STRONG RELIGIOUS LEADER IT IS MY JOB TO HELP HUMANITY ON THEIR PATH NOT DESTROY IT. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT PATHS AND I ALSO KNOW THAT ONE PATH RIGHT FOR ONE MAY NOT BE FOR ANOTHER. WE MUST EXCEPT EACHOTHER LOVE ONE ANOTHER REGARDLESS OF RELIGION OR RACE WE WERE ALL CREATED FOR A PUPOSE TO BUILD UP EACH OTHER NOT TEAR ONE ANOTHER DOWN. REMEMBER RELIGION COMES FROM MAN NOT GOD THE BIBLE IS A GUIDE. IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN BY MAN AS MAN IS FLAWED SO IS RELIGION AND THERE FOR SO IS THE BIBLE. GOD SEES WHATS IN YOUR HEART WE ARE ALL STRIVING FOR THE SAME THING WHETHER YOU CALL ON GOD, ALLAH, JOHOVA, LORD, LADY, OR MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE OR ALMIGHTY CREATER WE ARE ALL STILL PRAYING FOR THE SAME THINGS TO THE SAME GODS AND UNTIL WE REALIZE THIS THE WORLD WILL ALWAYS BE CHAOS. WE HAVE ABOLISHED SLAVERY AND GAVE WOMEN RIGHTS WHY ARE WE STILL FIGHTING OVER RELIGION YOU CAN HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HIGHER POWER OF WHATEVER YOU PREFER TO CALL IT WITHOUT RELIGION. A TRUE FOLLOWER DOESN'T ASK FOR MONEY THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THEY GIVE LOVE AND NOT EXPECTATIONS. THEY HELP WITH NOTHING IN RETURN. THEY LOVE WITH THERE WHOLE HEART AND LIVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST. YOU MAY SAY WHAT YOU WANT BUT I BELIEVE I AM A VESSLE GOD SPEAKS THROUGH.
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